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author | Thomas Voss <mail@thomasvoss.com> | 2024-11-27 20:54:24 +0100 |
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committer | Thomas Voss <mail@thomasvoss.com> | 2024-11-27 20:54:24 +0100 |
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diff --git a/doc/rfc/rfc5434.txt b/doc/rfc/rfc5434.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000..741bc9a --- /dev/null +++ b/doc/rfc/rfc5434.txt @@ -0,0 +1,731 @@ + + + + + + +Network Working Group T. Narten +Request for Comments: 5434 IBM +Category: Informational February 2009 + + +Considerations for Having a Successful Birds-of-a-Feather (BOF) Session + +Status of This Memo + + This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does + not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this + memo is unlimited. + +Copyright Notice + + Copyright (c) 2009 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the + document authors. All rights reserved. + + This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal + Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (http://trustee.ietf.org/ + license-info) in effect on the date of publication of this document. + Please review these documents carefully, as they describe your rights + and restrictions with respect to this document. + +Abstract + + This document discusses tactics and strategy for hosting a successful + IETF Birds-of-a-Feather (BOF) session, especially one oriented at the + formation of an IETF Working Group. It is based on the experiences + of having participated in numerous BOFs, both successful and + unsuccessful. + +Table of Contents + + 1. Introduction ....................................................2 + 2. Recommended Steps ...............................................2 + 3. The Importance of Understanding the Real Problem ................7 + 4. The BOF Itself ..................................................8 + 5. Post-BOF Follow-Up ..............................................9 + 6. Pitfalls .......................................................10 + 7. Miscellaneous ..................................................12 + 7.1. Chairing ..................................................12 + 7.2. On the Need for a BOF .....................................13 + 8. Security Considerations ........................................13 + 9. Acknowledgments ................................................13 + 10. Informative Reference .........................................13 + + + + + +Narten Informational [Page 1] + +RFC 5434 Successful BOF Sessions February 2009 + + +1. Introduction + + This document provides suggestions on how to host a successful BOF at + an IETF meeting. It is hoped that by documenting the methodologies + that have proven successful, as well as listing some pitfalls, BOF + organizers will improve their chances of hosting a BOF with a + positive outcome. + + There are many reasons for hosting a BOF. Some BOFs are not intended + to result in the formation of a Working Group (WG). For example, a + BOF might be a one-shot presentation on a particular issue, in order + to provide information to the IETF Community. Another example might + be to host an open meeting to discuss specific open issues with a + document that is not associated with an active WG, but for which + face-to-face interaction is needed to resolve issues. In many cases, + however, the intent is to form a WG. In those cases, the goal of the + BOF is to demonstrate that the community has agreement that: + + - there is a problem that needs solving, and the IETF is the right + group to attempt solving it. + + - there is a critical mass of participants willing to work on the + problem (e.g., write drafts, review drafts, etc.). + + - the scope of the problem is well defined and understood, that + is, people generally understand what the WG will work on (and + what it won't) and what its actual deliverables will be. + + - there is agreement that the specific deliverables (i.e., + proposed documents) are the right set. + + - it is believed that the WG has a reasonable probability of + having success (i.e., in completing the deliverables in its + charter in a timely fashion). + + Additional details on WGs and BOFs can be found in [RFC2418]. + +2. Recommended Steps + + The following steps present a sort of "ideal" sequence for hosting a + BOF where the goal is the formation of a working group. The + important observation to make here is that most of these steps + involve planning for and engaging in significant public discussion, + and allowing for sufficient time for iteration and broad + participation, so that much of the work of the BOF can be done on a + public mailing list in advance of -- rather than during -- the BOF + itself. + + + + +Narten Informational [Page 2] + +RFC 5434 Successful BOF Sessions February 2009 + + + It is also important to recognize the timing constraints. As + described in detail below, the deadline for scheduling BOFs is + approximately six weeks prior to an IETF meeting. Working backwards + from that date, taking into consideration the time required to write + drafts, have public discussion, allow the ADs to evaluate the + proposed BOF, etc., the right time to start preparing for a BOF is + almost certainly the meeting prior to the one in which the BOF is + desired. By implication, starting the work aimed at leading to a BOF + only 2 months prior to an IETF meeting is, in most cases, waiting too + long, and will likely result in the BOF being delayed until the + following IETF meeting. + + The recommended steps for a BOF are as follows: + + 1) A small group of individuals gets together privately, discusses a + possible problem statement, and identifies the work to be done. + The group acts as a sort of "design team" to formulate a problem + statement, identify possible work items, and propose an agenda for + a BOF. + + Possible sub-steps: + + a) Consider whether the work might already fall within the scope + of an existing Working Group, in which case a BOF might not + even be necessary. Individual Working Group charters can be + found at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/wg-dir.html and + indicate what a group is scoped to work on. + + b) Select the area or areas in which the work most naturally fits + by identifying WGs that most closely relate to the proposed + work. Note that it is not uncommon to find that a work item + could easily fit into two (or more) different areas and that no + one area is the obvious home. + + c) Consult with specific WGs to see whether there is interest or + whether the work is in scope. This can be done by posting + messages directly to WG mailing lists, contacting the WG + chairs, or contacting individuals known to participate in a + particular WG (e.g., from their postings or from documents they + have authored). + + d) Consult with an area-specific mailing list about possible + interest. (Most areas have their own area-specific mailing + lists. Follow the links under each area at + http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/wg-dir.html to find details.) + + + + + + +Narten Informational [Page 3] + +RFC 5434 Successful BOF Sessions February 2009 + + + e) Produce one or more Internet Drafts, describing the problem + and/or related work. It cannot be emphasized enough that, for + the BOF, drafts relating to understanding the problem space are + much more valuable than drafts proposing specific solutions. + + Timeline: This step can easily take 1-2 months; hence, begin 3-4 + months before an IETF meeting. + + 2) The group may (or may not) approach an Area Director (or other + recognized or experienced leader) to informally float the BOF and + get feedback on the proposed work, scope of the charter, specific + steps that need to be taken before submitting a formal BOF + request, etc. By "leader", we mean persons with significant IETF + experience who can provide helpful advice; individuals who have + successfully hosted BOFs before, current or former WG chairs, and + IESG or IAB members would be good candidates. + + The dividing line between steps 1) and 2) is not exact. At some + point, one will need to approach one or more Area Directors (ADs) + with a specific proposal that can be commented on. Step 1) helps + shape an idea into something concrete enough that an AD can + understand the purpose and provide concrete feedback. On the + other hand, one shouldn't spend too much time on step 1) if the + answer at step 2) would turn out to be "oh, we had a BOF on that + once before; have you reviewed the archives?". Thus, there may be + some iteration involving going back and forth between steps 1) and + 2). Also, a quick conversation with an AD might lead them to + suggest some specific individuals or WGs you should consult with. + + It may turn out that it is unclear in which area the proposed work + best fits. In such cases, when approaching multiple ADs, it is + best to approach the ADs approximately simultaneously, state that + you are unsure in which area the work fits, and ask for advice + (e.g., by stating "I'm not sure which area this work best fits + under, but it looks like it might be Internet or Security or + both"). When contacting multiple ADs, it is strongly advised that + you inform them of which other ADs you are conversing with. In + particular, it is usually counterproductive and not advisable to + go "AD shopping", where if one AD gives you an answer you don't + like, you go to another, without telling him/her what the first AD + said, in the hopes of getting a more favorable answer. + + To summarize, steps 1) and 2) involve a lot of "socializing an + idea", that is, having discussions with a number of different + people to attempt gaining agreement on the problem and the need + for and appropriateness of having a BOF. How much such discussion + is needed is very subjective, but it is critical in terms of + getting agreement that a BOF is appropriate. One way to tell if + + + +Narten Informational [Page 4] + +RFC 5434 Successful BOF Sessions February 2009 + + + you are close to getting it right: when talking to someone about + your idea for the first time, they quickly agree that a BOF seems + in order and don't have any major concerns. + + Timeline: Steps 1-2) can easily take 1-2 months; hence, begin 3-4 + months before an IETF meeting. + + 3) Create a public mailing list and post a "call for participation" + for the proposed BOF topic on various mailing lists (e.g., the + IETF list). The call for participation advertises that a + "community of interest" is being formed to gauge whether there is + sufficient interest to host a BOF. The goal is to draw in other + interested potential participants, to allow them to help shape the + BOF (e.g., by giving them time to write a draft, ask for agenda + time, help scope the work of the proposed work, argue that a BOF + is (or is not) needed, etc.). + + Timeline: This step can easily take 1 month or longer; it also + needs to be started well before the Internet-Drafts cutoff (to + allow participants to submit drafts); hence, begin 2.5-3.5 months + before the IETF meeting. + + 4) Have substantive mailing list discussion. It is not enough for a + handful of people to assert that they want a BOF; there needs to + be broader community interest. A public mailing list allows ADs + (and others) to gauge how much interest there really is on a topic + area, as well as gauge how well the problem statement has been + scoped, etc. At this phase of the BOF preparation, the emphasis + should be on getting agreement on the problem statement; + discussions about specific solutions tend to be distracting and + unhelpful. + + Timeline: this step can easily take 1 month or longer; hence, + begin 2.5 months before the IETF meeting. + + 5) Submit a formal request to have a BOF. Instructions for + submitting a formal request can be found at + http://www.ietf.org/instructions/MTG-SLOTS.html and + http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1bof-procedures.txt. Note that as part + of making a formal request, the organizers must identify the area + in which the BOF will be held (the Area Directors of that area + will be required to approve the BOF), include a proposed BOF + agenda, estimate the attendance, list conflicts with other + sessions that should be avoided, etc. + + If the previous steps have been followed, the Area Directors (ADs) + should be in a good position to gauge whether there is sufficient + interest to justify approval of a BOF. + + + +Narten Informational [Page 5] + +RFC 5434 Successful BOF Sessions February 2009 + + + Note: it almost goes without saying that without one or more + Internet Drafts at this point, it is generally pointless to ask an + AD to approve a BOF. + + Timeline: The Secretariat publishes an "important meeting dates" + calendar along with meeting information. There is a firm deadline + (about six weeks prior to the meeting) for submitting a formal BOF + scheduling request. Note that at the time of the deadline, an AD + will need to have sufficient information about the BOF to approve + or reject the request, so all of the previous steps will need to + have completed. + + 6) During the 2-4 weeks before an IETF (assuming a BOF has been + approved and scheduled), the focus (on the mailing list) should be + on identifying areas of agreement and areas of disagreement. + Since disagreement, or "lack of consensus", tends to be the main + reason for not forming a WG, focusing on those specific areas + where "lack of consensus" exists is critically important. In + general, only after those disagreements have been resolved will a + WG be formed; thus, the main goal should be to find consensus and + work through the areas of disagreement. Alternatively, a specific + case should be made about why the charter, as it is written, is + the best one, in spite of the stated opposition. + + 7) Prior to the BOF, it is critical to produce a proposed charter and + iterate on it on the mailing list to attempt to get a consensus + charter. Ultimately, the most important question to ask during a + BOF is: "should a WG with the following charter be formed?". It + goes without saying that a charter with shortcomings (no matter + how seemingly trivial to fix) will not achieve consensus if folk + still have issues with the specific wording. + + 8) Decide what questions will be asked during the BOF itself. Since + the exact wording of the questions is critical (and hard to do on + the fly), it is strongly recommended that those questions be + floated on the mailing list and to the ADs prior to the BOF. This + will enable people to understand what they will be asked to + approve and will allow the questions to be modified (prior to the + BOF) to remove ambiguities, etc. Likewise, discussing these + questions in advance may lead to refinement of the charter so that + the questions can be answered affirmatively. + + 9) At the meeting, but before the BOF takes place, plan a meeting + with all of the presenters to have them meet each other, review + the agenda, and make sure everyone understands what is expected of + them (e.g., what time constraints they will be under when + + + + + +Narten Informational [Page 6] + +RFC 5434 Successful BOF Sessions February 2009 + + + presenting). Use this time to also work through any disagreements + that still remain. Do the same "in the hallway" with other + interested parties! + + 10) Consult the tutorial schedule and consider attending relevant + tutorial sessions ("Working Group Chair Training", "Working Group + Leadership Training", etc.). This is especially the case if you + are considering being the chair of a proposed WG. Since the role + of the WG chair and BOF chair have a number of parallels, a + number of the topics covered in the tutorial apply to hosting a + BOF and developing a charter. + +3. The Importance of Understanding the Real Problem + + Throughout the process of chartering new work in the IETF, a key + issue is understanding (and finding consensus) on what the real, + underlying problem is that the customer, operator, or deployer of a + technology has and that the WG needs to address. When a WG finishes + an effort, the WG's output will only be useful if it actually solves + a real, compelling problem faced by the actual user of the technology + (i.e., the customer or operator). Unfortunately, there have been + more than a few IETF WGs whose output was not adopted, and in some of + those cases the cause was a lack of understanding of the real problem + the operator had. In the end, the WG's output simply didn't address + the right problem. + + Another issue that can happen is discussions about specific (or + competing) solution approaches effectively stalemating the WG (or + BOF), making it unable to make progress. In some of those cases, the + arguments about the appropriateness of specific technologies are + actually proxies for the question of whether a proposed approach + adequately addresses the problem. If there is a lack of clarity + about the actual underlying problem to be solved, there may well be + unresolvable arguments about the suitability of a particular + technical approach, depending on one's view of the actual problem and + the constraints associated with it. Hence, it is critical for all + work to be guided by a clear and shared understanding of the + underlying problem. + + The best description and understanding of an actual problem usually + comes from the customer, operator, or deployer of a technology. They + are the ones that most clearly understand the difficulties they have + (that need addressing) and they are the ones who will have to deploy + any proposed solution. Thus, it is critical to hear their voice when + formulating the details of the problem statement. Moreover, when + evaluating the relative merits of differing solution approaches, it + is often helpful to go back to the underlying problem statement for + guidance in selecting the more appropriate approach. + + + +Narten Informational [Page 7] + +RFC 5434 Successful BOF Sessions February 2009 + + +4. The BOF Itself + + For the BOF itself, it is critically important to focus on the bottom + line: + + What is it that one is attempting to achieve during the BOF? + + Or, stated differently, after the BOF is over, by what criteria will + you decide whether or not the BOF was successful? + + A good BOF organizer keeps a firm focus on the purpose of the BOF and + crafts an agenda in support of that goal. Just as important, + presentations that do not directly support the goal should be + excluded, as they often become distractions, sow confusion, and + otherwise take focus away from the purpose of the BOF. If the goal + is to form a WG, everything should lead to an (obvious) answer to the + following question: + + Does the room agree that the IETF should form a WG with the + following (specific) charter? + + One of the best ways to ensure a "yes" answer to the above, is by + performing adequate preparation before the BOF to ensure that the + community as a whole already agrees that the answer is "yes". How + does one do that? One good way seems to be: + + 1) Have a public discussion with sufficient time to allow iteration + and discussion. (Hence, start a minimum of 3 months prior to the + IETF meeting.) + + 2) Work with the community to iterate on the charter and be sure to + address the significant concerns that are being raised. (One can + address the concerns in advance -- and get advance agreement -- or + one can have those concerns be raised (again) during the BOF -- in + which case it is likely that the proposed charter will not be good + enough to get agreement during the actual BOF). + + 3) During the BOF, keep the agenda tightly focused on supporting the + need for the WG and otherwise making the case that the group has + identified a clearly-scoped charter and has agreement on what the + set of deliverables should be. + + Another important reason for holding a BOF is to establish an + understanding of how the attendees (and the larger community) feel + about the proposed work. Do they understand and agree on the problem + that needs solving? Do they agree the problem is solvable, or that + new protocol work is needed? To better understand the degree of + agreement, it is useful to ask the audience questions. + + + +Narten Informational [Page 8] + +RFC 5434 Successful BOF Sessions February 2009 + + + Whenever asking questions, it is important to ask the right ones -- + questions that show where there is agreement and questions that probe + the details around where agreement is lacking. Good questions + typically focus on aspects of the problem in a piecewise fashion, + establishing areas of consensus and identifying areas where + additional work is needed. Poor questions do not serve to focus + future discussion where it is needed. The following are examples of + questions that are often useful to ask. + + 1) Is there support to form a WG with the following charter? (That + is, the charter itself is ready, as shown by community support.) + + 2) Does the community think that the problem statement is clear, + well-scoped, solvable, and useful to solve? + + 3) Can I see a show of hands of folk willing to review documents (or + comment on the mailing list)? + + 4) Who would be willing to serve as an editor for the following + document(s)? (BOF chairs should take note of individuals who + raise their hands, but it is also a useful gauge to see if there + is a critical mass of editors to work on all the documents that + are to be produced.) + + 5) Does the community think that given the charter revisions + discussed during the BOF (subject to review and finalization on + the mailing list), a WG should be formed? + + 6) How many people feel that a WG should not be formed? (If the + number of no responses is significant, it would help to ask those + saying no why they are opposed.) + + 7) Before asking a particular question, it is sometimes very + appropriate to ask: Do people feel like they have sufficient + information to answer the following question or is it premature to + even ask the question? + + Unfortunately, it is also easy to ask the wrong questions. Some + examples are given in a later section. + +5. Post-BOF Follow-Up + + After the BOF has taken place, it is advisable to take assessment of + how well things went and what the next steps are. The ADs should be + included in this assessment. Some things to consider: + + + + + + +Narten Informational [Page 9] + +RFC 5434 Successful BOF Sessions February 2009 + + + 1) Did the BOF go well enough that the logical next step is to focus + on refining the charter and becoming a WG before the next IETF + meeting? If so, there will almost certainly be additional + discussion on the mailing list to refine the charter and work out + a few remaining items. + + Note that it can be difficult to determine in some cases whether a + WG is a feasible next step. Much will depend on details of how + the BOF went and/or whether the contentious items can either be + resolved on the mailing list or simply be excluded from the + charter and dealt with later (if at all). Much will also depend + on the relevant AD's assessment of whether the proposed work is + ready to move forward. Sometimes even a seemingly contentious BOF + can result in a WG being formed quickly -- provided the charter is + scoped appropriately. + + If the next step is to attempt to form a WG, the charter needs to + be finalized on the BOF-specific mailing list. Once done, the + IESG can be asked to formally consider the charter. The IESG then + (usually) posts the proposed charter to the IETF list for + community feedback and makes a decision based in part on the + feedback it receives. + + 2) It may be the case that enough additional work still needs to take + place that aiming for a second (and final) BOF makes more sense. + In that case, many of the steps outlined earlier in this document + would be repeated, though at a faster pace. + + The expectations for a second BOF are generally higher than those + for an initial BOF. In addition to the work done up through the + first BOF, the first BOF will have highlighted the key areas where + additional work is needed. The time leading up to the second BOF + will need to be spent working through those outstanding issues. + Second BOFs should not be a repeat of the first BOF, with the same + issues being raised and the same (unsatisfactory) responses + provided. The second BOF needs to show that all previously + identified issues have been resolved and that formation of a WG is + now in order. + +6. Pitfalls + + Over the years, a number of pitfalls have been (repeatedly) observed: + + 1) Waiting too long before getting started. It is very difficult to + prepare for a BOF on short notice. Moreover, ADs are placed in a + no-win situation when asked to approve a BOF for which the + community has not had a chance to participate. Steps 1-4 in + Section 2 above are designed to show the ADs that there is + + + +Narten Informational [Page 10] + +RFC 5434 Successful BOF Sessions February 2009 + + + community support for a particular effort. Short-circuiting those + steps forces an AD to make a judgment call with (usually) too + little information. Moreover, because the community has not been + involved, it is much more likely that significant (and valid) + objections will be raised. Often, those objections could have + been dealt with in advance -- had there been sufficient time to + work through them in advance. + + 2) Too much discussion/focus on solutions, rather than showing that + support exists for the problem statement itself, and that the + problem is well-understood and scoped. The purpose of the BOF is + almost never to show that there are already proposed solutions, + but to demonstrate that there is a real problem that needs + solving, a solution would be beneficial to the community, it is + believed that a solution is achievable, and there is a critical + mass of community support to actually put in the real work of + developing a solution. + + 3) Asking the wrong question during the BOF. Often, BOF organizers + feel like they need a "show of hands" on specific questions. But, + unless a question is clear, well scoped, focused enough to + establish where there is agreement (and where not), etc., asking + such a question serves little purpose. Even worse, asking poor + questions can frustrate the BOF participants and lead to + additional questions at the microphone, derailing the focus of the + BOF. + + Examples of unreasonable questions to ask: + + - Asking folk to approve or review a charter that is put on screen + but has not been posted to the mailing list sufficiently in + advance. (You cannot ask folk to approve something they have + not seen.) + + - Asking multi-part questions in which it is not clear (in + advance) what all of the exact questions will be and which + choices a participant needs to choose from. + + 4) Poorly advertised in advance, thus, the BOF itself does not + include the "right" participants. This can happen for a number of + reasons, including: + + - giving the BOF a "cute" but unintuitive name (or acronym), + preventing people from realizing that it would be of interest to + them. + + + + + + +Narten Informational [Page 11] + +RFC 5434 Successful BOF Sessions February 2009 + + + - failing to advertise the BOF in advance to the community of + people that might be interested. At a minimum, the existence of + a proposed BOF should be advertised on the IETF list as well as + on specific WG lists that are somewhat related. + + 5) Providing agenda time for the "wrong" presentations. There is an + (unfortunate) tendency to give anyone who requests agenda time an + opportunity to speak. This is often a mistake. Presentations + should be limited to those that address the purpose of the BOF. + More important, presentations should not distract from the BOF's + purpose, or open up ratholes that are a distraction to the more + basic purpose of the BOF. An example of problematic + presentations: + + - presentations on specific solutions, when the purpose of the BOF + is to get agreement on the problem statement and the need for a + WG. Solutions at this point are too-often "half-baked" and + allow discussion to rathole on aspects of the solutions. + Instead, the focus should be on getting agreement on whether to + form a WG. + + 6) Poor time management, leading to insufficient time for discussion + of the key issues (this is often closely related to 5). When + presentations run over their allotted time, the end result is + either squeezing someone else's presentation or having + insufficient discussion time. Neither is acceptable nor helpful. + BOF chairs need to give presenters just enough time to make key + points -- and no more. It may well be helpful to go over a + presenter's slides in advance, to ensure they are on-topic and + will fit within the time slot. + +7. Miscellaneous + +7.1. Chairing + + BOF organizers often assume that they will be chairing a BOF (and the + eventual WG). Neither assumption is always true. ADs need to ensure + that a BOF runs smoothly and is productive. For some topics, it is a + given that the BOF will be contentious. In such cases, ADs may want + to have a more experienced person chairing or co-chairing the BOF. + Also, those interested in organizing the BOF often are the most + interested in driving a particular technology (and may have strongly + held views about what direction an effort should take). Working + Groups are often more effective when passionately involved parties + are allowed to focus on the technical work, rather than on managing + the WG itself. Thus, do not be surprised (or offended!) if the AD + wants to pick one or more co-chairs for either the BOF or a follow-on + WG. + + + +Narten Informational [Page 12] + +RFC 5434 Successful BOF Sessions February 2009 + + +7.2. On the Need for a BOF + + This document highlights the need for allowing for and actively + engaging in a broad public discussion on the merits of forming a WG. + It might surprise some, but there is no actual process requirement to + have a BOF prior to forming a WG. The actual process requirement is + simply that the IESG (together with the AD(s) sponsoring the work) + approve a formal charter as described in [RFC2418]. In practice, + BOFs are used to engage the broader community on proposed work and to + help produce an acceptable charter. + + There are two observations that can be made here. First, BOFs are + often held not because they are (strictly speaking) required, but + because it is assumed they are needed or because ADs feel that a BOF + would be beneficial in terms of getting additional public + participation. Hence, those interested in forming a WG should give + serious consideration to using the steps outlined above not just for + the purposes of creating a BOF, but to convince the IESG and the + broader community that a BOF is not even needed, as there is already + demonstrated, strong consensus that a WG should be formed. Second, + the IESG should not forget that BOFs are simply a tool, and may not + even be the best tool in every situation. + +8. Security Considerations + + This document has no known security implications. + +9. Acknowledgments + + This document has benefited from specific feedback from Jari Arkko, + Brian Carpenter, Dave Crocker, Spencer Dawkins, Lisa Dusseault, Pasi + Eronen, John Klensin, Tim Polk, Mark Townsley, and Bert Wijnen. + +10. Informative Reference + + [RFC2418] Bradner, S., "IETF Working Group Guidelines and + Procedures", BCP 25, RFC 2418, September 1998. + +Author's Address + + Thomas Narten + IBM Corporation + 3039 Cornwallis Ave. + PO Box 12195 - BRQA/502 + Research Triangle Park, NC 27709-2195 + + Phone: 919-254-7798 + EMail: narten@us.ibm.com + + + +Narten Informational [Page 13] + |