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+Network Working Group                                          J. Postel
+Request for Comments:  808                                           ISI
+                                                            1 March 1982
+
+
+
+               SUMMARY OF COMPUTER MAIL SERVICES MEETING
+                     HELD AT BBN ON 10 JANUARY 1979
+
+
+
+
+Introduction:
+
+   This note is a very belated attempt to document a meeting that was
+   held three years ago to discuss the state of computer mail in the
+   ARPA community and to reach some conclusions to guide the further
+   development of computer mail systems such that a coherent total mail
+   service would continue to be provided.
+
+   Some important conclusions were reached at this meeting which limited
+   the extent to which mail systems were to incorporate new features in
+   the context of the existing service and specifications.
+   Unfortunately, this meeting and the conclusions were not documented,
+   and the specifications were not revised.  This has led to continuing
+   problems in the mail service.
+
+   Due to the passage of time these notes are necessarily quite
+   incomplete.  It is thought that there were a number of other
+   attendees.  I would like to express my appreciation to those who
+   helped provide this information, especially Vint Cerf, Jack Haverty,
+   Danny Cohen, Bob Thomas, and Debbie Deutsch.
+
+The Meeting Announcement:
+
+   On 10 January 1979 we are holding a meeting at BBN in Cambridge, MA,
+   starting at 0930, to discuss Message Service support on the ARPANET.
+   The purpose of the meeting is to provide a basis for any
+   standardization of efforts which may be necessary.  We will take
+   stock of the various message services currently available on the
+   ARPANET, discuss problems which have been encountered between
+   different message systems, review current protocols and review
+   forthcoming developments.  An agenda is given below.  Each of you
+   should be prepared to discuss current problems you are aware of and
+   any developments which impact future message service.
+
+
+
+
+
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+
+
+Postel                                                          [Page 1]
+
+
+
+Summary of Computer Mail Services Meeting                   1 March 1982
+RFC 808
+
+
+The Meeting Agenda:
+
+   1.  Present State of Affairs
+      .  Survey of Message Systems
+      .  Current Problems
+      .  Format Protocols - RFC 560, 680, 733
+      .  Distribution Service
+      .  Documentation
+   2.  Future Developments in Message Technology
+      .  Multi-Media Techniques
+      .  Impact of Personal Computers
+      .  Distributed Service
+         -  NSW Project
+         -  Internetwork Addressing and Forwarding
+      .  Other
+   3.  Impact of Charging Technology on the Message Service
+      .  Protocols
+      .  Distribution of Messages
+   4.  Managing the Message Service
+   5.  Supporting the Message Service
+
+Talks:
+
+   1.  Duane Adams opened the meeting.  He indicated that we should be
+   concerned about computer mail as a total message service (not just as
+   a local user interface), and asked what impact on the message service
+   the developments in internetting and multimedia would have.
+
+   2.  Dave Farber gave a bit of history of mail systems, listing the
+   names of all the systems anybody had every heard of (see Appendix A).
+   It was noted that most of the mail systems were not formal projects
+   (in the sense of explicitly sponsored research), but things that
+   "just happened".
+
+   3.  Ted Myer chaired a discussion of current problems in mail
+   systems, and the following made comments as well: R. Stallman,
+   D. Farber, P. Santos, K. Harrenstien, R. Kunzelman, T. Knight,
+   B. Thomas, D. Lebling, J. Haverty, D. Cohen, D. Adams, V. Cerf, and
+   A. Vezza.
+
+      This was mostly gripes about what this or that mail system did
+      wrong.
+
+         Topics included use of MLFL instead of MAIL, fully qualifying
+         the all the usernames with hostnames on all the addresses,
+         immediate feedback about the addressed user having a mailbox at
+         the destination host or getting an error message later, host
+
+
+
+Postel                                                          [Page 2]
+
+
+
+Summary of Computer Mail Services Meeting                   1 March 1982
+RFC 808
+
+
+         table update problems, strange FTP replies (e.g., "System going
+         down in 10 minutes"), and addressing issues.
+
+      There were also some things mentioned that might be added to the
+      current systems.
+
+         Topics included virtual hosts (e.g., NSW), internetted hosts,
+         authentication, message identification, duplicate detection,
+         spoofing, multicopy delivery, limits on receipt, program to
+         program mail, structured typed data, graphics, fax, and voice.
+
+      At the end of this session there was a statement that further work
+      was putting patches on patches and that we should make a
+      commitment to a version 2 system.  There should be an edict that
+      says "this is it", and the current mail service should be frozen.
+
+   4.  Debbie Deutsch talked about some work being done at BBN on
+   multimedia mail.
+
+      Debbie discussed the alternatives for including other types of
+      data (voice, graphics, fax, numeric, executable) in messages, and
+      for structuring messages to identify and interrelate the different
+      types of data.  The main choice to make is between encoding the
+      data in ASCII and using keyword field identifiers, or using a
+      binary typed structured format.  The current work is attempting
+      integrate fax data handling into an existing text mail system.
+      Copies of the viewgraphs were distributed.
+
+   5.  There was a discussion of Personal Computers.
+
+      Tom Knight gave a short discription of the Lisp Machine project.
+
+      There was some general discussion of the impact of personal
+      computers on mail services.  The main realization being that the
+      personal computer will not be available to handle incoming mail
+      all the time.  Probably, personal computer users will have their
+      mailboxes on some big brother computer (which may be dedicated to
+      mailbox service, or be a general purpose host) and poll for their
+      mail when they want to read it.  There were some concerns raised
+      about accountability and accounting.
+
+   6.  Bob Thomas talked about the ideas for routing mail between
+   regular mailboxes on ARPANET Hosts and mailboxes of NSW users.
+
+      The main point of interest is that an NSW user is not a user of a
+      specific host, thus, the notion of a mailbox being "user@host"
+      dosen't work.  Bob suggested that one might think of NSW as a
+      virtual host.  The implementation of this mail service for NSW
+
+
+Postel                                                          [Page 3]
+
+
+
+Summary of Computer Mail Services Meeting                   1 March 1982
+RFC 808
+
+
+      users is constrained to minimize the amount of new code and
+      changes to existing programs.  Bob described his ideas for address
+      formats for sending messages between NSW users, from NSW users to
+      ARPANET users, and from ARPANET users to NSW users.  The last
+      being the most difficult to pull off.  Copies of the viewgraphs
+      were distributed, and copies of a memo were distributed (BBN NSW
+      Working Note 24).
+
+   7.  Jon Postel talked about the ideas he had for internet multimedia
+   mail systems.
+
+      Two aspects of this were a general approach to addressing and
+      routing for mail distribution, and using a structure of typed data
+      elements to represent the message data and control.
+
+   8.  There was some discussion of other work in mail services.
+
+      Someone talked about the work of ANSI X3 S33 on message structure
+      and protocol.
+
+      Dave Farber described the activities of IFIP TC 6.5 on
+      international message services.
+
+      Ted Myer described the interests of the US Congress Office of
+      Technology Assesment (OTA) in electronic communication.
+
+General Discussion:
+
+   It was suggested that we need to view the problems in building a
+   total message service rather than individual message systems.
+
+   In general it was felt that the current message service was somewhat
+   out of control with incompatible varations and extensions.  There
+   were several instances where a minor change to one mail system led to
+   unexpected problems in another mail system.
+
+   In part, the reason for this seemed to be the varations allowed by
+   the protocol, and especially the partial implementation of the
+   protocol by most systems.
+
+   The general approach to resolving these problems was two fold:
+
+      First, a few minor further changes were to be allowed, but in
+      general full implementation of the protocol (RFC 733) was not to
+      be carried out. In case of questions about a particular change
+      Duane Adams was to decide if it would be allowed ot not.  The goal
+      in this approach was to quickly stabilize the mail service in a
+      useful state.
+
+
+Postel                                                          [Page 4]
+
+
+
+Summary of Computer Mail Services Meeting                   1 March 1982
+RFC 808
+
+
+         In particular, if a small number of senders are doing something
+         that is incompatible with the total service, they will be asked
+         to stop doing it.  Or, if a small number of receivers can't
+         handle something that most systems do, they will be asked to
+         handle that feature.
+
+      Second, work was to be focused on the definition and
+      implementation of a next-generation mail service which would
+      attack all the existing problems and include facilities for voice,
+      fax, and graphics data.
+
+   The use of structured data in the next-generation mail service was
+   approved.  Jack Haverty noted that RFC 713 specified a language,
+   MSDTP, that could be used to define a structured mail protocol.
+
+Conclusions:
+
+   A.  Existing Mail Services
+
+      1.  Mail shall not be sent between hosts if it breaks existing
+      mail programs.
+
+         Outlawed by this rule are:
+
+            a. Spaces in user names.
+
+            b. Multiple at signs in mailboxes.
+
+      2.  Features of RFC 733 that are generally unimplemented shall
+      remain unimplemented, and are decommitted from the specification.
+
+         Outlawed by this rule are:
+
+            a. "Include" and "Postal" type addresses.
+
+      3.  Duane Adams will arbitrate disputes.
+
+      4.  There shall be no more changes to the MAIL/MLFL FTP reply
+      codes.
+
+   B.  New Mail Services
+
+      1.  New services should be provided in the context of the
+      experimental multimedia mail systems now being planned.
+
+
+
+
+
+
+Postel                                                          [Page 5]
+
+
+
+Summary of Computer Mail Services Meeting                   1 March 1982
+RFC 808
+
+
+Action Items:
+
+   1.  Jon Postel is to circulate a draft specification of a structured
+   mail protocol by 15-Feb-79.
+
+      [* This became IEN-85 published in March 1979 and now superseded
+      by RFCs 759 and 767. *]
+
+   2.  Everyone is to submit a 2 to 3 page position paper on addressing
+   to Duane Adams by 1-Mar-79.
+
+   3.  Everyone is to submit a 2 to 3 page position paper on System
+   Architecture and Message Transmission by 1-Apr-79.
+
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+Postel                                                          [Page 6]
+
+
+
+Summary of Computer Mail Services Meeting                   1 March 1982
+RFC 808
+
+
+Appendix A:
+
+             First Preliminary List of ARPANET Mail Systems
+
+      Center;by Dave Farber
+
+   Mail System         Authors          Machines
+
+   SNDMSG              Antiquity        Tenex, TOPS-20
+   READMAIL            Antiquity        TEXEX, TOPS-20
+   RD                  Larry Roberts    TENEX, TOPS-20
+   MSG                 Vittal           TENEX (18 SITES)
+   HERMES              BBN              TENEX (14 SITES)
+   HG                  Calvin
+   MAIL                Werme            TOPS-10 on KA and KL10 CMU
+   RDMAIL              Karlton          TOPS-10 on KA and KL10 CMU
+   COMSAT              KLH              MIT-MC,-AI,-ML
+   MAIL/QMAIL (1)      KLH              MIT-MC,-AI,-ML
+   BABYL               EAK              MIT-MC,-AI,-ML
+   FTPS (2)            KLH              MIT-MC,-AI,-ML
+   SIGMA               ISI              Dedicated TENEX
+   MAILSTAT (3)        BBN              TENEX, TOPS-20
+   FTP (2)             BBN              TENEX, TOPS-20
+   MAILER (3)          BBN              TENEX, TOPS-20
+   MM                  MMcM@AI          SRI-KL
+   BANANARD            Yonke            TENEX
+   MSG Version 1       UCB - RAND       PDP 11 UNIX
+   SNDMSG (UNIX)       UCB - RAND       PDP 11 UNIX
+   MS                  D. Crocker       PDP 11 UNIX
+   MSG Version 2       D. Crocker       PDP 11 UNIX
+   MH                  Borden           RAND-UNIX
+   Read-mail (1)       Palter & Sibert  Multics all
+   print-mail          Palter & Sibert  Multics all
+   send-mail           Palter & Sibert  Multics all
+   MSGH                Ness at Wharton  Wharton 10
+   Wharton Mail System Ness at Wharton  Wharton 10
+   SWAMP               Guyton           IBM 370 Wilber
+   MSG                 Antiquity        HARVARD and RUTGERS 10
+   MAIL (1)            Harvey           SU-AI-10
+   RCV (Mail reader)   Harvey           SU-AI-10
+   DMSG                (Private)        TENEX
+   READMAIL                -            LL IBM VM/370
+   RD                  Haines           LL IBM VM/370
+   $NETMAIL               ?             AMES-67
+
+   (1)  mail sender
+   (2)  FTP server
+   (3)  service system
+
+
+Postel                                                          [Page 7]
+
+
+
+Summary of Computer Mail Services Meeting                   1 March 1982
+RFC 808
+
+
+Attendees:
+
+   Name                 Org     Mailbox
+
+   Duane Adams          ARPA    Adams@ISIA
+   Bill Carlson         ARPA    Carlson@ISIA
+   Vint Cerf            ARPA    Cerf@ISIA
+   Jerry Burchfiel      BBN     Burchfiel@BBNA
+   Debbie Deutsch       BBN     DDeutsch@BBNA
+   Jack Haverty         BBN     Haverty@BBN-Unix
+   Charles Khuen        BBN     Khuen@BBNC
+   Mark Lavin           BBN     MLavin@BBNE
+   Charlotte Mooers     BBN     Mooers@BBNE
+   Ted Myer             BBN     Myer@BBNA
+   Ray Nickerson        BBN     Nickerson@BBNC
+   Paul Santos          BBN     Santos@BBNE
+   Bob Thomas           BBN     BThomas@BBND
+   Mike Wingfield       BBN     Wingfield@BBND
+   Joanne Sattley       CCA     JZS@CCA
+   Howard Wactlar       CMU     Wactlar@CMU-10A
+   James Pool           DOE     Pool@BBN
+   Robert McNab         DCA     DCACode535@ISIA
+   Ed Cain              DCEC    Cain@EDN-Unix
+   Warren Hawrylko      DCEC    Lyons@ISIA
+   Harry Helm           DCEC    Lyons@ISIA
+   Danny Cohen          ISI     Cohen@ISIB
+   Jon Postel           ISI     Postel@ISIF
+   Dave Lebling         MIT     PDL@MIT-XX
+   Tom Knight           MIT     TK@MIT-AI
+   R. Stallman          MIT     RMS@MIT-AI
+   Pat Winston          MIT     PHW@MIT-AI
+   Al Vezza             MIT     AV@MIT-DMS
+   Wayne Shiveley       OFDA    ---
+   Bob Anderson         RAND    Anderson@RAND-Unix
+   Ken Harrenstien      SRI     KLH@SRI-NIC
+   Ron Kunzelman        SRI     Kunzelman@SRI-KL
+   Dave Farber          UDEL    Farber@UDEL
+
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+Postel                                                          [Page 8]
+